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You have to admit, that's sexier. ([info]stephen_fry) wrote,
@ 2012-02-07 14:41:00

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[Why I Like Lupin and Tonks as a Couple]
Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with the Lupin I'm playing at [info]vimods or any storylines I have on the books/don't have on the books for him. But playing him has made me think about what about them as a couple I've always liked




The Harry Potter series is sort of blamed for having a lot of little couples that get together in school and stay together forever, like Lily Evans & James Potter or Harry & Ginny. I mean, there are a lot of other couples that get together later (like my personal favourite, Rolf & Luna) but they aren't really talked about, like at all, beyond JKR's little sign-offs.

We do, however, see Lupin & Tonks. I'm not delusional enough to be unaware of the amount of fandom hatred directed at Tonks, but I don't give a shit. Yes, it might mess with someone's ship that Remus gets with a girl, and so what? I've been ignoring Mary Morstan for years, but that doesn't mean I hate her. Character bashing is petty, I think, particularly when they're disliked for the wrong reasons. (And sure, there are legitimate reasons for not liking Tonks, like the fact she comes out of no where, can change her hair-and-eye colours like all the worst Mary Sues and whatever else. I'm not disputing that. It's just irrelevant to what I want to say.)

Keep in mind, this is an opinion and it's my opinion and you're free to agree or disagree or whatever. but this is how I've always interrupted their relationship, and why I've always liked it.

What I think is overlooked, a lot, is the fact that Lupin and Tonks are really meant to represent people coming together during a time of war who probably otherwise wouldn't have. Compatibility aside (and I think it's more than hinted at a bit that they're quite opposite) they've a generation gap between them and without the Order probably wouldn't have spent enough time together.

They're also broken.

Now, this is probably a personal thing for me, so read on at your own risk. My Great-Grandmother on my Grandfather's side of the family was from a crazy-wealthy doctor's family. She married someone who worked on a boat and was basically disowned for it. (It's actually a really sad story. She was institutionalised in the 1930s and only actually died about 1992 but I never met her or knew anything about her until - when I was about 12 - I asked my Grandmother why Popa never spoke about his mother. My Nana said she always assumed it was the strain of being disowned that stressed her to the point of mental collapse. But hey. Mental Health in the 1930s was a crazy time.). Obviously, Andromeda Tonks was happy with the choices she made, but I refuse to believe that they were made entirely without difficulty. And, if Draco Malfoy is any evidence of the kind of Pure-blooded ridicule Muggleborns are exposed to, one can only imagine the kind of hatred thrown at Dora all the time that she was growning up. And I think that a lot of her 'rebellious' nature spawned from the fact that she wanted to create an identity for herself beyond the blood traitor's baby.

And, I think anyone who has ever been to high school will agree that people who are different or talented or special in any kind of way are more-often-than-not ridiculed by their peers, not supported. Tonks was different and I can only imagine that her metamorphmagus status and ability was reduced to a novelty more often than it should have been. If only she could find someone who could look past what she was and see WHO she was...

Enter, Remus Lupin.

There is something that everyone should know about Remus Lupin, and that's the fact that Everything he loves dies. No, like I mean it. Everyone.

James and Lily and Peter Pettigrew are murdered by Sirius Black. That's his entire foundation and the friendship that he built up, and the people that accepted him for who he was all gone in one fell swoop, and it's nearly 13 years until he learned that it wasn't Sirius, but Peter. Not that that really counts for anything because in the end, Remus spends 13 years in a very shitty place where he doesn't trust himself, his instincts or how he feels about other people. Because everyone he loves dies. And that little glimmer of hope shines and Sirius comes back (very damaged, mind you) I'm sure that meant the absolute world to Lupin.

And no, not in a 'ship' way. I'm talking about the fact that this person whom he loved like a best friend and a brother essencially comes back from the dead and he's not alone anymore.

And then he dies too. Shattering Remus into a million little wolf pieces.

Remus and Tonk's courtship follows. No, I don't think he was pressured into a relationship that he didn't want. But I think there was a whole lot more to why Remus didn't jump at the chance to be with someone besides the fact he was a werewolf. I think he had a lot of reservations, and I think he'd had his heart broken too many times, and I think he felt like he'd let his friends down far too many times to trust himself with someone else's love, and someone else's life.

But he comes around, and he comes around from a place that isn't perfect and so does she. They found each other while the entire world is teetering on the edge of collapse. Love at an unlikely time between two unlikely people. I love it, it's beautiful. But what drives it home for me, what really makes me like them is a couple is that FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HARRY POTTER HISTORY: LOVE DOESN'T FUCKING FIX EVERYTHING. Remus' fears and his self-doubt resurface. He's afraid for his wife and unborn child because of his own fucking track-record. I personally don't think he's abandoning them to help Harry because he suddenly wants a Sirius Black adventure, I think he's stepping out because he's afraid he's going to let her down and their child down. That he won't be able to protect them that he wasn't able to protect his friends.

The tragedy, I guess, is that he was right. (And obviously I don't blame him for the fact his wife died. But, I fucking bet that he would have blamed himself if he'd survived and she hadn't.)

I love the depth that's there. I love the fact that there are things happening that we don't see and that we can interpret them as we like and if your interpretation is different from mine, that's absolutely fine. But I think they were a good couple because they weren't a perfect couple. I think they're interesting because they had problems, both come from trouble, both have things about them that they want the world to see past and (in Remus' case in particular) certainly have issues.


How this does relate to RP
I like them because I'm drawn to that imperfect dynamic. I mean, any couple that I'm know for playing out is usually not straight-forward because no relationships really are. I do think, however, that circumstances played a huge role in them getting together -- not just the Build up/Second War -- but their own individual circumstances and so it is something that I think relies very heavily on the interpretation on the both characters and their compatibility.


(Post a new comment)


[info]corporatecake
2012-02-07 09:59 pm UTC (link)
Very interesting thoughts, some of which I'd had before and some of which are new to me, but I agree! I feel bad for poor Tonks, she gets such a bad rap from fandom and she doesn't deserve it. I mean, she's far from one of my favorite characters in canon, but come on. Virulent hatred because it made teh ghey secks~ not canon is uncool.

I also agree that Tonks is probably a person who has some issues, and obviously Remus has tons of them, too. I can definitely see him blaming himself for what happened to the Potters. We know that Sirius blamed himself for not realizing Peter was the spy, and presumably, Remus would have felt similar self-blame. After finding out they chose Peter over him, he probably also would have felt pretty terrible about that, too. Did they not trust him? Was it because he was a werewolf? Etc, etc. Which I think would be another barrier to him even making new friends, let alone having a romantic relationship.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]stephen_fry
2012-02-07 10:03 pm UTC (link)
They actually didn't trust him. They thought he was the spy. That's why he didn't know about the switch from Sirius to Peter and was part of the reason why he so strongly believed that the Secret Keeper was Sirius.

Remus: "...he thought I was the spy, Peter. I assume that's why you didn't tell me, Sirius?"
Sirius: "Forgive me, Remus."
Remus: "Not at all, Padfoot, old friend. And will you forgive me for believing you were the spy?"
Sirius: "Of course."

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]corporatecake
2012-02-07 10:06 pm UTC (link)
I thought I remembered that there was something mentioned about Remus being a spy, but I didn't remember that there was an exchange that specific.

Wow, Remus took that really well, though. I'd have been fucking pissed.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]stephen_fry
2012-02-07 10:07 pm UTC (link)
I don't know that he took it well, really. He just had 13 years of being alone to come to terms with it. Also, that exchange takes place, I believe, when they have their wands on Pettigrew...

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]corporatecake
2012-02-07 10:09 pm UTC (link)
Well, I would've assumed the Order/everyone else was told Sirius was secret keeper so he would have thought he was in the loop. But I feel like either way, I wouldn't have been able to hold back, "Yeah, you were wrong, asshole" but that's just me.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]stephen_fry
2012-02-07 10:09 pm UTC (link)
LOL.

"I fucking TOLD YOU SO, didn't I?"

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]corporatecake
2012-02-07 10:10 pm UTC (link)
"I want to see more grovelling for my forgiveness! >:{"

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]stephen_fry
2012-02-07 10:18 pm UTC (link)
I love it.

But anyway! I'm glad you sort of get where I'm coming from with the whole Tonks thing. She isn't one of my favourite characters either, but I think she's mistreated. I've also seen her played poorly a lot and that's probably part of the problem. I mean, she's played the same way that all the bad Ginny/Lily/Narcissas are in that "I'm in it for the guaranteed ship, and not the interest in the character" way.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]hp_anon
2012-02-08 01:27 am UTC (link)
This is why I will often take Tonks/Ginny/Lily myself (besides the fact that I love them), because there are few people that I really trust with them, and why I'm always picky about accepting new ones.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]aufwiedersehen
2012-02-07 10:17 pm UTC (link)
I really, really like this analysis of the Lupins' relationship. That one sentence that marked them as dead was the only time I had to put the book down. I cried for Dobby; I cried for Fred; but I had to put the book down for Remus and Tonks. Because it was the death of a happy ending for two people who really could have used one.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]stephen_fry
2012-02-07 10:23 pm UTC (link)
THIS. THIS. So much. I was rooting for them because you're right. I think they both earned a little bit of happiness...and it's heart breaking they didn't get it. And I'm glad you liked my analysis, because I really am tired of people dismissing it because it isn't their ship.

...(but I equally hate when I see them RPed as like, super special happy couple and dismissing the grit that makes them interesting just as much.)

I love the dynamic of these two and I think the series is a lot richer for including this kind of not-perfect relationship.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]aufwiedersehen
2012-02-07 10:36 pm UTC (link)
I hate when people dis it because it's not their thing. Moreso when the dismissal of it as a valid and viable relationship is heaped just on Tonks.

Yeah, it's not a butterflies-and-rainbows-and-fluffy-kittens relationship. It's a "neither one of exactly know what to do with this, and we both have our issues and baggage, but we want this to work, even if we aren't exactly sure how exactly to best do that" relationship. It starts off in angst-central and coping with loss and living in war time and...yeah.

::nod:: It adds a lot of depth, I think. Because...most of the other 'ships that actually sail don't have those sorts of struggles.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]katling
2012-02-08 12:24 am UTC (link)
I agree. I like your analysis. I like Remus/Sirius when it's done well but since the relationship was revealed in the books, I tend to favour Remus/Tonks more. And yes, part of it is because I'm the same age as Tonks - she was born the same year as me (1973) - so I can completely see why she'd be drawn to someone like Remus. Smart, quietly funny, good-looking older man who isn't brash, arrogant or over the top and who respects people and doesn't treat her like a freak for simply being what she is. Okay, yes, he has so much baggage he probably needs three valets to help him carry it all but there's some very nice positives there.

Ahem, anyway. I wanted that happy ending for them too. Because they are that shining example of 'twu wuv doesn't solve everything and you've got to freaking well work on a relationship' that you don't really see anywhere else in HP. I've always wanted to try playing a Tonks or Remus in a Trio era game but there aren't a huge number of Trio era games that aren't school based around these days and obviously the post-DH games aren't exactly an option.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)


[info]stephen_fry
2012-02-08 12:28 am UTC (link)
Yeah. No, same, I'd love to play a really good canon Tonks and Remus but you're right--they're either school based, or not an option. I'm in a DH Era game that does have an Order and a school component, but it's AU. It's the only one I've found though, that fit the bill.

I don't know. They're just one of my favourite pairings in the books, I'd love to do them justice.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]wingedthing
2012-02-07 11:15 pm UTC (link)
First: I could've sworn I had a Tonks/Remus icon on this journal BUT I DON'T. I am kind of heartbroken.

Second: I've been a long time Tonk/Remus shipper, not necessarily because I think it's so kawaii desu or anything else, but just because it worked for me. It seemed real, moreso than a lot of other ships in this series, if only because they are so flawed and their relationship isn't perfect. And it's imperfect for logical, real reasons. And it stays imperfect. And that's real.

Third: this made me want to play Tonks so bad. I've never wanted to do that before, so this is weird.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]stephen_fry
2012-02-08 12:49 am UTC (link)
I don't understand people who hate canon ships. I mean, I like to play with it sometimes -- who doesn't? But I will never understand the appeal of dissing a character because you don't like that, in canon, they get with the one you want to put with someone else. That won't ever make sense for me.

But Yes, I agree with you. I don't think that Remus and Tonks are perfect, and that's the point. Variety. Spice of Life. Etc. And you only see little bits and pieces of their relationship and their lives together but you can piece enough together to see genuine struggles and people who have problems like people do. I love that. I find it, like you said, 'real' and very compelling.

I'm glad I made you want to play Tonks! I feel like she's a character who is really under-played and under-represented in the RP community because Remus/Sirius is such a popular thing. And because the Harry Potter women have been so butchered by so many bad rpers over the years, unfortunately.

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[info]wingedthing
2012-02-08 03:14 am UTC (link)
I NOW HAVE ICONS

I've never understood that either. I think it's a little bit too much of the whole self-insertion thing. Like people are jealous that [Character X] gets with the character they have a crush on, so obviously, [Character X] is absolutely horrible and should diaf and they're such a Mary Sue, omg how can you like that character? And then it gets frustrating because that character probably does have genuine issues (because let's face it, how many authors write their characters perfectly?), but most of the criticism ends up being because the character sunk the canon ship.

And the best part, the absolute best part, is that they love each other despite those struggles and flaws. To me, that's a lot more inspiring than seeing "whee, I love him forever now and yayyyyy~" because that's the way real life works. Real couples have times when they don't even like each other, but they love each other so they make it work. Or they don't! And I think that's one of the larger problems I've always had with the series as a whole: you don't see a lot of couples that are romantically linked but are really struggling to make it work. And it's fair enough because hurr, not a romance series, but still.

I think it also relates to that there's not a large window in which to play her. Most games are either Marauders' Era, Trio Era, or Next Gen, and Tonks isn't really around for the way games play out in any of those...she's a baby in Marauders' Era, most Trio Era games take place in school, and she's dead by Next Gen or any Post-Warts games. And it makes me supersad :\

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[info]ginge
2012-02-07 11:47 pm UTC (link)
Their age difference is 13 years, right? I know it sounds like a lot, but TBH it's not. I agree there's a bit of a 'generational gap', but people with that age difference get together all the time.

I've always been a bit indifferent to Tonks/Remus, as I am indifferent to most of the relationships in HP (but I do like that they didn't get together ~~in school~~ and were happily ever after). I liked reading this though, it was interesting! I definitely agree he wasn't pushed into something he didn't want. Tonks might have been the persistent one, but there's always going to be a 'chaser' and 'chasee', Remus just held out a bit longer!

I think p. much everyone has a "I never would have become best friends/married to/close with so and so if ~this~ didn't happen" - it's just not a war for most of us!!

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[info]stephen_fry
2012-02-08 12:37 am UTC (link)
No, thirteen years is a lot. I'm not saying it's a horrible age gap and that they shouldn't have gotten together. I've certainly dated people who were that much older than me. But I do think it's significant, I mean, it's six years between the time Lupin graduated Hogwarts and the time Dora started, right?... and I also think it was a concious choice on JKR's part to make them that far apart in age. I don't think Andromeda's (or any of the sisters) had a timeline set in place for their ages when Dora was introduced, so she could have been...any age, really.

And I know that there are a lot of Hogwarts-to-Marriage couples, but I've also been forever fond of Luna/Rolf, Neville/Hannah, Draco/Astoria etc. I do think that helps balance things at least a little bit. (But I'm also probably partial to Rolf and Luna because it is my favourite always.)

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[info]ginge
2012-02-08 12:53 am UTC (link)
When you compare the 13 years to Hogwarts, yes it's a lot. But Remus and Tonks hadn't been in Hogwarts for a while. Once you get past 20, the age thing becomes way less substantial and it's honestly just a number. Someone who's 24 could be more mature and older in mentality than a 39 year old.

Well Luna/Rolf, Neville/Hannah, Astora/Draco, etc, in my mind, are just filler. They had no story, but were just ~thrown together for the epilogue. Which I mean, is great to say that everyone went forwards and had families, but unfortunately we didn't get to be a part of any of that.

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[info]hp_anon
2012-02-08 01:45 am UTC (link)
I'm really bad at reading between the lines and seeing stuff like this, but this is basically a condensed (lol yes, condensed) version of what a friend of mine had to say about the ship that really made me see the little things in their relationship, because at least a couple years ago, the thing people seemed to hate was the fact that it "came out of nowhere" and went everywhere really fast.

But we don't see everything, and we have to read into things and look closely to see all the little things that shows the development, and once we do that, it doesn't seem so random and actually looks like JKR thought about what she was doing, and didn't just say "SHIP ALL THE PEOPLE." I have to say though, I think she kind of did give them a happy ending, because they both died, rather than just one of them. I mean, obvs she could have let them both live, but considering everything Remus has gone through in his life, it might not be happy, but I think it's fitting, especially since she wanted the complete circle of the Marauders and Lily around Harry at the end. And I think that's why she killed Tonks, because otherwise it'd be a broken ship, and like y'all said, they kind of earned a happy ending.

I liked this analysis a lot, both because I share your opinion and because it's made me think and reconsider how I play Tonks; I've never been able to play the ship either, at any point during it, but I've always wanted to, and whenever I read something like this just reminds me how much I want to.

(Reply to this)


[info]cremepuff
2012-02-08 11:34 pm UTC (link)
No surprise here, but I do agree with you on most, if not all of your points about Remus and his situation. Definitely emotionally wrecked. I always felt Remus and Tonks was random, but then in a sense it was. They were brought together in a time when everything was turning to shit. I mean you look at any couple with an age gap that is big and think it sort of random. I particularly like the Remus and Tonks pairing.

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